Prime Minister Narendra Modi recently held a long podcast with American computer scientist and MIT professor Lex Fridman. The podcast was out on Sunday.  An "epic three-hour podcast" once again demonstrated that the country listens when PM Modi talks.

Fridman described the podcast as "one of the most powerful conversations" he has ever had. During their discussion, they covered various topics, including PM Modi's birthplace, India's cultural heritage, and his connection with the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS). This was Prime Minister Modi's second podcast appearance in his long political journey. Earlier, he had joined entrepreneur and investor Nikhil Kamath for a podcast in January. The podcast started with Fridman delving into PM Modi’s childhood life. PM Modi shared insights about his early life and childhood. He spoke about his humble beginnings, mentioning that he learned many valuable life lessons while helping at his father’s tea stall and from his mother, who often treated children with home remedies.

During his conversation, PM Modi recalled growing up with his parents, siblings, uncles, aunts and grandparents in a little house without windows. “My early life was spent in extreme poverty, but we never really felt the burden of poverty,” said PM Modi, adding, “Despite everything, these challenging circumstances of living in scarcity never left a mark on our minds.” He also mentioned that he used to go to school without shoes. When his uncle found out, he gave young Modi a pair of white canvas shoes. After that, Modi's concern shifted to keeping the shoes clean. “In the evening, after school was over, I would stay back for a while. I would go from classroom to classroom, collecting leftover pieces of chalk that the teachers had discarded. I would take the pieces of chalk home, soak them in water, mix them into a paste, and polish my canvas shoes with it, making them bright white again,” he said. 

“For me, those shoes were a treasured possession, a symbol of great wealth. And I don’t exactly know why, but from childhood, our mother was extremely particular about cleanliness. Perhaps that’s where we inherited that habit too,” PM Modi said. Prime Minister Narendra Modi shared memories of his father and the lasting impact he had on him. He recalled that his father would leave home every morning around 4:00 or 4:30 am, walking long distances while visiting several temples before arriving at his stall. Modi described how his father's traditional leather shoes made a distinct "tock, tock, tock" sound as he walked through the village. “People in the village used to say that they could tell the time just by hearing his footsteps — ‘Oh yes, Mr. Damodar is on his way.’ Such was his discipline,” he recalled. 

During his conversation with Fridman, Prime Minister Narendra Modi spoke about his strong bond with the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) and how it played a key role in shaping his patriotic values. He expressed gratitude to the organisation for giving him a sense of purpose in life. Modi said he felt fortunate to have learned important life lessons from the RSS, describing it as a “sacred” organisation that has been inspiring people to serve the nation since 1925. Modi compared the RSS to the leftist Labour unions, saying, “Leftist unions say ‘Workers of the world, unite,’ but the RSS labour union says ‘Workers, unite the world.’ This reflects how the RSS instils its values in its approach.” 

During his conversation with Fridman, Prime Minister Modi also touched upon the 2002 Gujarat riots, stating that a false narrative was created about the events. However, he emphasised that the judiciary had cleared his name. Modi stated that claims suggesting the 2002 riots were the biggest riots in Gujarat's history were an attempt to spread misinformation. “If you review the data from before 2002, you will see that Gujarat faced frequent riots. Curfews were constantly being imposed somewhere. Communal violence would erupt over trivial issues such as kite flying contests or even bicycle collisions,” Modi said. 

PM Modi also mentioned that the Gujarat riots in 1969 continued for over six months, a time when he was not yet active in politics. He also stated that the Godhra train burning incident occurred just three days after he was elected as a member of the Gujarat Assembly. Modi claimed that a false narrative was spread about the Godhra incident. “But, the courts investigated the matter thoroughly and found us completely innocent. Those who were truly responsible have faced justice from the courts,” he said. The Prime Minister stated that the most significant achievement is that Gujarat, which previously experienced frequent violence, has remained free from riots since 2002.

Prime Minister Modi also discussed India's foreign policy and its relationship with neighbouring countries, particularly Pakistan. He explained to Fridman that despite India's efforts to improve ties, Pakistan has repeatedly betrayed India. “When I became prime minister, I specially invited Pakistan to my swearing-in ceremony so we could turn over a new leaf. Yet, every noble attempt at fostering peace was met with hostility and betrayal. We sincerely hope that wisdom prevails upon them and they choose the path of peace. I believe even the people of Pakistan long for peace because even they must be weary of living in strife and unrest, they must have grown weary of relentless terror where even innocent children are killed and countless lives are destroyed,” he said.

“My first attempt at improving bilateral relations was when I invited my Pakistani counterpart to my swearing-in. It was a gesture of goodwill. It was a diplomatic gesture unlike any in decades. The very people who once questioned my approach to foreign policy were taken aback when they learned I had invited all SAARC heads of state and our then president, Mr Pranab Mukherjee beautifully captured that historic gesture in his memoir. This was a testament to how clear and confident India’s foreign policy had become. This sent a clear message to the world about India’s commitment to peace and harmony, but we didn’t get the desired outcome,” PM Modi said.

PM Modi added, “They have waged a proxy war against us.” He also categorically stated that Pakistan’s actions aren’t an ideology. “What kind of ideology thrives on bloodshed and the export of terror? And we are not the sole victims of this menace. Wherever terror strikes in the world, the trail somehow leads to Pakistan. Let’s take the September 11 attacks for example,” PM Modi said, indicating how Osama bin Laden was found hiding in a house in Pakistan. 

The podcast also discussed Artificial Intelligence (AI) and its future. When asked how India could become a leader in AI, PM Modi stated that regardless of global advancements in AI, it would be incomplete without India's involvement. PM Modi elaborated on his comment, saying, “I believe AI development is fundamentally a collaboration. Everyone involved supports one another through shared experiences and learning.” Modi also said he believes that with AI, “humans are now being forced to reflect on what it truly means to be human”.“This is the real power of AI. Because of the way AI functions, it has challenged how we perceive work itself. But human imagination is the fuel. AI can create many things based on that and in the future, it may achieve even more. Still, I firmly believe that no technology can ever replace the boundless creativity and imagination of the human mind,” he said.

As the Russia-Ukraine war continues into its fourth year, Fridman asked PM Modi about his views on the conflict and India's stance. In response, PM Modi clarified that India is not neutral but strongly dedicated to promoting peace. He emphasised that the conflict can only be resolved through negotiations between both sides, stressing that a solution cannot be achieved through fighting alone. Highlighting his strong ties with Russian President Vladimir Putin and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, Modi stated that he can encourage Russia to understand that war is not the answer while reminding Ukraine that true solutions are not found on the battlefield. “I have a close relationship with Russia and Ukraine alike. I can sit with President Putin and say that this is not the time for war. And I can also tell President Zelenskyy, in a friendly way, that brother, regardless of how many people stand with you in the world, there will never be a resolution on the battlefield,” Modi said. He added, “The resolution will only come when both Ukraine and Russia come to the negotiating table. Ukraine may hold countless discussions with its allies, but it will bear no fruit. Discussions must include both parties.”

When asked about his relationship with US President Donald Trump, PM Modi explained that they connected because both leaders prioritise their own countries. Modi mentioned that even after there was an assassination attempt on him during Trump's presidential campaign, he showed no fear and stayed completely focused on his dedication to America. “His life was for his nation. His reflection showed his America First spirit, just as I believe in Nation First. I stand for India first and that’s why we connect so well. These are the things that truly resonate,” he said.

Fridman also asked him what he admires about Trump as both a leader and a friend. He also brought up Trump's remark that Modi is a "much tougher, much better negotiator." To this, PM Modi recalled how the US president had walked with him into a crowd of thousands without even asking for security at the ‘Howdy Modi’ event. He said it was a “truly touching” moment for him that he reflected a sense of mutual trust between them. “In American life, it’s almost impossible for the President to walk into a crowd of thousands, but without even a moment’s hesitation, he (Trump) agreed and started walking with me. His entire security detail was thrown off guard, but for me, that moment was truly touching,” he said.

Fridman and Modi's discussion also included philosophical subjects like death. If he is afraid of dying, PM Modi responded, “We know for a fact that life itself is a whispered promise of death and yet life is also destined to flourish. So again, in the dance of life and death, only death is certain, so why fear what is certain? That is why you must embrace life instead of fretting over death. That is how life will evolve and flourish, for it is uncertain.” The Prime Minister encouraged people to stop wasting time on worries and instead focus on improving their lives and making a positive impact on the world. He emphasised that since life is unpredictable, every moment should be used wisely for learning, growing and creating meaningful change.

Fridman also posed a question to Modi about power and the importance of it to the PM. "As far as power is concerned, it is something I have never bothered about," the prime minister stated. “I entered politics not to play power games, but to serve. Rather than seeking power, I stay committed to doing and getting work done. I am more focused on productivity than power. I have always dedicated myself to serving the people. I have always devoted myself to bringing about a positive change in their lives,” Modi said.

During their conversation, Fridman mentioned that he had fasted for 45 hours, drinking only water, as a gesture of respect for his interview with Prime Minister Narendra Modi. Prime Minister Modi also spoke about fasting, highlighting its advantages. He explained that fasting is not just about avoiding food but is a scientific process linked to traditional and Ayurvedic practices.